Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211
03/20/2008 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB198 | |
| SB199 | |
| SCR12|| SB203 | |
| SB213 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 198 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 203 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SCR 12 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 199 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 213 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SB 198-CAMPAIGN FINANCE/ELECTION CODE VIOLATIONS
9:07:52 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of SB 198.
SENATOR BILL WIELECHOWSKI, Alaska State Legislature, said SB 198
is based on recommendations by the Alaska Public Offices
Commission (APOC) to restore the statute of limitations to four
years for investigating and prosecuting violations of state
campaign finance reforms. Alaska has only a single year now.
Most states allow for more time for violations to come to light
and be investigated. Georgia allows three to five years.
Washington and California allow complaints to be filed within
four years. Connecticut, Massachusetts, Hawaii, and New Jersey,
have no time limits. Several states extend their statutes for
fraud and misrepresentation for one year from the date of
discovery. At the unanimous urging from APOC, SB 198 would
reinstate the four-year statute of limitations that existed
until 2003, providing sufficient time for a violation to be
discovered and investigated. The bill will restrict post-
election fundraising to ten days after an election. It also
limits surplus campaign funds that can be given to a political
party to $5,000, in conformity with AS15.030.70, which limits
individual donations to political parties. At the recommendation
of the APOC commissioners, SB 198 will also increase the civil
penalty for lobbyists who don't file required reports with the
commission from $10 to $50 per day. It has not been increased
since 1976, and APOC is concerned that it is not substantial
enough to encourage timely filing.
9:10:31 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked why 10 days instead of 45 for fundraising.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said it was a recommendation by APOC, and
the fundamental idea is that once someone wins an election he or
she shouldn't fundraise.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if this has been a problem.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he is willing to take that provision
out.
CHAIR MCGUIRE suggested that an underdog may win and then wants
an opportunity to recover costs.
SENATOR BUNDE said it seems that some losers of federal
campaigns have fundraisers to recoup personal funds. He
understands that ten days may include money in the mail. But a
winner may be able to lean on people and there may be more
pressure than from a loser's fundraising activities.
9:13:00 AM
CHRIS ELLINGSON, Acting Executive Director, Alaska Public
Offices Commission, said the rationale for the ten days is based
on what has been happening since campaign finance reform. The
winners usually get most of the money before and after the
election. There seems to be a run of post-election fundraising
to recoup some personal money and to pay off debts, but much of
it is used to give away to others. APOC has looked at where this
money is going. Some goes to charities that had a close
relationship with the winner and some goes to the political
party. APOC is considering reinstating the ten-day post-election
report and changing the year-end report due date to December 31,
which makes more sense. "That's why they were looking at the
ten-day time frame. They were not wedded to it and if it is a
problem, I'm sure that they would understand if it came out."
9:15:19 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said he supports limiting "the notion of
harvesting money and then turning it around and passing it on to
parties and charities and that sort of thing." The bill also
contains a $5,000 maximum contribution, and he asked if that
would address those concerns. "The other thing is if it was
limited to only people who lost the election, would that help?
Because … someone that has won the election and then has a
fundraiser … people may feel pressured to attend that."
MS. ELLINGSON said the $5,000 would make a big difference. If
that stays in, APOC would have no problem with the time period
th
being up to the 45 day. Of importance is that the people who
run and win are the ones who can have a fundraiser. A fundraiser
for a loser doesn't really happen.
9:17:18 AM
SENATOR STEVENS asked if the money is really a problem. He would
be lucky to have money left over after an election. How often
has over $5,000 been given to a political party?
MS. ELLINGSON said quite often because of the limits of rolling
money forward to a new campaign. She has seen anywhere from
$10,000 to $20,000, and it doesn't necessarily go to the central
committee, it may go to different arms of the committees.
SENATOR STEVENS said he wants some facts before he would agree.
MS. ELLINGSON said she can get it to him, but there are between
five and six candidates that distribute that much to parties
after every election campaign. It is part of the disbursement
process after the election is over.
9:19:02 AM
SENATOR FRENCH asked if a person could donate $5,000 to the
Republican Party and then give more to a subdivision of the
party, like a candidate's fund. Will it all count toward the
limit?
MS. ELLINGSON said yes. Everyone else in the state who wants to
contribute to the party can only give $5,000, so why shouldn't a
candidate have the same limit?
SENATOR FRENCH asked if this bill will make $5,000 the total
limit and not allow giving $5,000 to different subdivisions.
9:20:37 AM
MS. ELLINGSON said it will bring it in line with every other
person that contributes. That is the total maximum.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if this is abused by both parties.
MS. ELLINGSON said, absolutely.
SENATOR BUNDE asked how often the lobbyist fine is imposed now,
and how many days are they usually in arrears.
MS. ELLINGSON said at every APOC meeting there are five to
fifteen lobbyists up for civil penalty review because they want
to appeal them. Lobbyists have paid up to $7,000 at $10 per day.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if they are accessed the penalty when they
are under appeal.
MS. ELLINGSON said lobbyists have to file a report and then they
are assessed a penalty. The clock stops the day the report is
filed. They can appeal it once they get the penalty letter.
SENATOR STEVENS said a $7,000 fine could go up to $35,000.
MS. ELLINGSON agreed.
9:23:20 AM
SENATOR STEVENS said he is not a great friend of lobbyists but
the fine sounds high, but they do earn lots of money. He has a
problem with the ten days and the $5,000. He wants to know why
it is so bad that the parties receive funds and disburse them to
the candidates. What is so bad about the current system?
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said Ms. Ellingson had compelling
testimony. APOC is unanimous on it. If a lobbyist is getting
fined $7,000 it means reports haven't been filed for over two
years, and Ms. Ellingson said there were five to fifteen
lobbyists per APOC meeting. It is a problem, and if the fine is
increased it might solve it. The fine is so small lobbyists
decide to pay the fine instead of disclosing information.
9:26:09 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said he understands the logic of not letting a
candidate donate more than anyone else. He supports the $5,000
limit. The ten-day timeframe wasn't as important to APOC. He
heard Ms. Ellingson say there were ten to fifteen lobbyists
appealing, not in arrears. A person files, meets the deadline,
and then argues about it afterwards. He doesn't understand why a
lobbyist wouldn't file on a timely basis, so he is not concerned
about the $50 a day. He doesn't understand why a winner "should
be able to do the 45 days. I don't know if we want to be
creative and say losers get 45 days and winners get 10." Maybe
it isn't worth the effort because not many people go to a
loser's fundraiser. There may be people who run with the idea of
recouping some of their losses after the election. He asked Ms.
Ellingson about differentiating between winners and losers.
9:28:22 AM
MS. ELLINGSON said it would be doable but prefers keeping it
equal across the board. APOC is not wedded to the ten-day limit.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said if candidates are doing what they should be
doing, they are out knocking on doors and campaigning.
Fundraising is a burden, but the money helps get the message
out. She raises money after the deadline because she has no time
during the election. She doesn't raise money to give to a party.
SENATOR FRENCH said the heart of this proposal is extending the
statute of limitations. This is what the public wants. The bill
has a long way to go, and he wants the committee to agree to let
that provision go forward today. A one-year statute of
limitation on campaign violations is insufficient given the
meager resources of APOC. He wants to rally around that part of
the bill. He doesn't know how much of a problem post-election
fundraising is, but APOC thinks it is a problem. There should be
some time limit on fundraising. He has seen some losers hold
fundraisers, and maybe they are being encouraged to run again.
"I've had to come deeply out of pocket to get through an
election cycle, and so you try to get some of that back." He
suggested changing the limit to 30 days, keeping the statute of
limitations, and moving the bill.
9:32:05 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said there is another bill that addresses only the
four-year statute of limitations. This bill could be set aside.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she would like to let both bills move through
the process. Thirty days seems like a compromise.
SENATOR FRENCH moved conceptual Amendment 1, as follows:
On page 2, line 8:
Delete "ten"
Insert "thirty"
Hearing no objection, conceptual Amendment 1 passed.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she would like to hear how that plays out,
and maybe with the limitation on the party donation, it will
take care of the problem.
SENATOR STEVENS said he wants to know the reason for the $5,000.
He gets money from the Republican Party. He has never returned
any to it, but it may be a good idea to return money to those
coffers. What is wrong with it?
9:34:11 AM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said APOC unanimously supported these
changes, and it puts everyone in line with what any other
individual in the state can donate. The meat of the bill is the
statute of limitation. If the committee is concerned, perhaps it
can be taken up at another time.
SENATOR STEVENS said APOC has not presented a compelling
argument. There is nothing wrong with returning funds to the
party that supported him. He also questioned the 30-day limit.
SENATOR FRENCH said there should be some limit, and 30 days is
enough time to wrap up a campaign and settle the debts. He is
not sure any abuses have been centered on settling campaign
accounts. He wouldn't oppose an amendment to strike Section 3.
SENATOR BUNDE objected. This is a package of recommendations
from APOC and the committee is dissecting and picking among
them. "If you want a clean bill, we've got one."
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she will oppose the amendment because she can
see where a party is using candidates - who are propped up by
the party -- to regenerate funds. It is outside the regular
method for raising money for the party.
9:37:09 AM
SENATOR FRENCH he said he wouldn't oppose a motion, but did not
move an amendment.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said Senator Stevens has made good points, and
perhaps between now and the next committee, he can get more
information.
SENATOR FRENCH moved to report SB 198, as amended, from
committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal
note(s).
SENATOR BUNDE objected. There are two bills with the core
provision, and this is more complicated. SB 198 shouldn't move
out of committee when there are a lot of questions. "We should
work on this bill, and I think these $5,000 questions are
important ones. Let the clean bill move forward, and we can let
this one catch up after we get our questions answered."
9:39:14 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she doesn't want politics to get in the way
of what seems to be a good idea. "Good enough that you have two
members out of 20 that have put it forward." She wants to put
them both forward and see which one moves ahead.
A roll call vote was taken. Senators French and McGuire voted in
favor of moving SB 198 from committee, and Senators Bunde and
Stevens voted against. The bill failed to move out of committee
on a vote of 2 to 2.
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